Positive Atheism Discussion
Graphic Rule
Calvary Chapel Senior Pastor
Spreads Lies About Atheists

Graphic Rule

 
===== Cliff Walker Responds =====

Pastor Rob:

Cliff:

Pastor Rob:

Cliff:

 
===== Jyoti Shankar Also Responds =====

Pastor Rob:

Jyoti:

I am also amazed by the steadfastness of atheists, who stand by their unbelief because of the lack of evidence for belief in god, even though the majority [of humans], day in and day out, are brainwashing each other and try to brainwash their wards into believing something that does not exist.

Like I said the progress has been from millions of god to one. From one to zero is a big step in the evolution of human belief.

 
===== Tim Sullivan Responds =====

Dear Rob,

Your letter is more original than that of some xians I have seen in that you say [A]theists (and I presume you mean Atheism, in general) is a belief in one god. In its "logic" that's where your letter loses its uniqueness in that it is fairly typical of xian "thought". The word "theist" denotes a person or system who thinks religiously or promotes things as such. You think that there are "gods" floating around in the air, monsters under the earth, etc. When you put an "a" in front of many words, it changes the meaning. Much of the time the meaning is an antonym of the original word, but sometimes it puts the new meaning completely clear of the old meaning. When we say atheism (A -plus- theism), we may seem to mean one way or the other. I prefer to use the second way because it does not lend credence to the philosophy of theism. I think many Humanists have trouble with the word "atheism" because they think it does give credence to theism since they ignore the possibility that the universe is not necessarily based on dichotomies. They are wrong.

When some grown-up people die, they call out for mommy. Other people take a nap. Others just fall over. It's a matter of personal preference. An Atheist may call out "god" in this time of duress. You must remember that people do unusual things in situations like this. Some of us were reared in xian "homes" where god "concepts" were instilled upon us from the time we were little babies. We have pretty much escaped the strangleholds of xianity and reclaimed our atheist birthright. But we are all human. Some may fall down in times of duress. Some may call out to "god." And then, what happened? You may cry out for the Tooth Fairy when you croak.

No, Rob. While the chances are very good that there are no such things as jehovah and jesus and the holy ghost floating around in the air. While there may be no such things as monsters in the earth; ghouls under the bed and ghosts in the closet, there are monsters floating around in people's thoughts. These viruses infect our thoughts and turn us into self-loathing parasites. christianity is one of the foremost viruses of this kind in this country.

But, as long as you can scare ignorant people about burning in hell, you can make money. I think this is why Atheists scare you, Rob. Do you have any reality-based skills, or are you afraid that Atheists are going to take the only "job" you may know away from you and force you to get a job as a dishwasher? Dishwashing is not great and it probably won't pay the bills (especially if you are one of those breeder xians who have more than two kids), but it will keep you off of the welfare roles and put you on a crash diet.

Atheists do not believe, they think critically. They observe, ponder, speculate, hypothesize, dream, fantasize responsibly and reach conclusions and convictions. There is no room for belief in an adult's mind much less than the mind of a child. Which brings up another point: All people think with their brains, not their hearts. The heart is a blood pump. The First Chapter of Romans was hashed out by some savage or savage who apparently did not know this. Poetry and artistic license will not save their comment from the scrutiny of thinking minds.

Assuming that I, as an Atheist, knew of the existence of -- say -- your particular god, for example, and knew that everything you said was true about said god, I would rather go to "hell" than serve this hapless "individual." My atheism would still be intact and in my "suffering" my condolence would be knowing that I didn't serve some monster who your bible says tortures and kills little children. But, I fired "this" worthless wretch long ago.

"Hell" is just a bad idea, it is not reality. There are no actual records of its existence. It only occurs in certain people's imaginations. I don't feel sorry for you because we don't share a common neural system. I can only feel my own joys and sorrows, etc. Suffice to say that I cannot go to hell because it would be impossible for me to live inside your brain.

Tim Sullivan

 
===== Rob Lashes Back at Tim; Cliff Responds =====

Tim:

Your letter is more original than that of some xians' I have seen in that you say [A]theists (and I presume you mean Atheism, in general) is a belief in one god. In its "logic" that's where your letter loses its uniqueness in that it is fairly typical of xian "thought". The word "theist" denotes a person or system who thinks religiously or promotes things as such.

Pastor Rob:

Cliff:

Graphic Rule

Tim:

You think that there are "gods" floating around in the air, monsters under the earth, etc. When you put an "a" in front of many words, it changes the meaning. Much of the time the meaning is an antonym of the original word, but sometimes it puts the new meaning completely clear of the old meaning.

Pastor Rob:

Cliff:

Graphic Rule

Tim:

When we say atheism (A-plus-theism), we may seem to mean one way or the other. I prefer to use the second way because it does not lend credence to the philosophy of theism. I think many Humanists have trouble with the word "atheism" because they think it does give credence to theism since they ignore the possibility that the universe is not necessarily based on dichotomies. They are wrong.

Pastor Rob:

Cliff:

Graphic Rule

Tim:

When some grown-up people die, they call out for mommy. Other people take a nap. Others just fall over. It's a matter of personal preference. An Atheist may call out "god" in this time of duress. You must remember that people do unusual things in situations like this. Some of us were reared in xian "homes" where god "concepts" were instilled upon us from the time we were little babies. We have pretty much escaped the strangleholds of xianity and reclaimed our atheist birthright. But we are all human.

Pastor Rob:

Cliff:

Graphic Rule

Tim:

Some may fall down in times of duress. Some may call out to "god." And then, what happened? You may cry out for the Tooth Fairy when you croak.

Pastor Rob:

Cliff:

Graphic Rule

Tim:

No, Rob. While the chances are very good that there are no such things as Jehovah and jesus and the holy ghost floating around in the air. While there may be no such things as monsters in the earth; ghouls under the bed and ghosts in the closet, there are monsters floating around in people's thoughts.

Pastor Rob:

Cliff:

Graphic Rule

Tim:

These viruses infect our thoughts and turn us into self-loathing parasites. Christianity is one of the foremost viruses of this kind in this country.

Pastor Rob:

Cliff:

Graphic Rule

Tim:

But, as long as you can scare ignorant people about burning in hell, you can make money. I think this is why Atheists scare you, Rob. Do you have any reality-based skills, or are you afraid that Atheists are going to take the only "job" you may know away from you and force you to get a job as a dishwasher? Dishwashing is not great and it probably won't pay the bills (especially if you are one of those breeder xians who have more than two kids), but it will keep you off of the welfare roles and put you on a crash diet.

Pastor Rob:

Cliff:

Graphic Rule

Tim:

Atheists do not believe, they think critically. They observe, ponder, speculate, hypothesize, dream, fantasize responsibly and reach conclusions and convictions. There is no room for belief in an adult's mind much less than the mind of a child. Which brings up another point: All people think with their brains, not their hearts. The heart is a blood pump. The First Chapter of Romans was hashed out by some savage or savage who apparently did not know this. Poetry and artistic license will not save their comment from the scrutiny of thinking minds.

Pastor Rob:

Cliff:

Graphic Rule

Tim:

Assuming that I, as an Atheist, knew of the existence of -- say -- your particular god, for example, and knew that everything you said was true about said god, I would rather go to "hell" than serve this hapless "individual." My atheism would still be intact and in my "suffering" my condolence would be knowing that I didn't serve some monster who your bible says tortures and kills little children. But, I fired "this" worthless wretch long ago.

Pastor Rob:

Cliff:

Graphic Rule

Tim:

"Hell" is just a bad idea, it is not reality. There are no actual records of its existence. It only occurs in certain people's imaginations. I don't feel sorry for you because we don't share a common neural system. I can only feel my own joys and sorrows, etc. Suffice to say that I cannot go to hell because it would be impossible for me to live inside your brain.

Pastor Rob:

Cliff:

Graphic Rule

Pastor Rob:

 
===== Pastor Robb Responds to Cliff =====

Cliff:

Graphic Rule

===== Russell Ogilvie Jumps In =====

Graphic Rule

Material by Cliff Walker (including unsigned editorial commentary) is copyright ©1995-2006 by Cliff Walker. Each submission is copyrighted by its writer, who retains control of the work except that by submitting it to Positive Atheism, permission has been granted to use the material or an edited version: (1) on the Positive Atheism web site; (2) in Positive Atheism Magazine; (3) in subsequent works controlled by Cliff Walker or Positive Atheism Magazine (including published or posted compilations). Excerpts not exceeding 500 words are allowed provided the proper copyright notice is affixed. Other use requires permission; Positive Atheism will work to protect the rights of all who submit their writings to us.