Cliff's Writings
Brett Rice
From:
To: Positive Atheism <editor@positiveatheism.org>
Date: Monday, October 19, 1998 3:45 AM
Subject: Cliff's Critical Thinker writings
Cliff,
I found your page through a link from the Page of Honest Intellectual Inquiry last week, and I've just now had the time to read some of your past monthly editorials. I found them to be inspiring and very well written. I wish, for your sake, that I had the ability to express myself in such a cogent and appealing manner. You epitomize the highest standards of the writer's craft, and you thereby advance your cause very effectively.
I am, however, one of the "enemy camp", so to speak, as I am a Christian. I want to qualify that by saying that I am an atypical Christian. I practice my faith in the sanctity of my own mind, leaving others to do the same. (In my case, your standard atheistic accusation that "It's all in your mind." is accurate.) I don't belong to a "church", denomination, or other organized or disorganized group of fellow believers, nor do I advocate that others give up their rights and duties to think and choose for themselves.
I believe in thinking for myself, discovering truth for myself, and applying the knowledge which I aquire to my life, as I see fit, on the basis of that knowledge. I also believe in assisting others to do the same. I commend you for doing that.
I therefore abide by the principle of tolerance, of all people, in all cases. God knows (Heh, heh,..), I have plenty of my own faults to concern myself with -- I don't need to worry about someone else's. I can't help but be involved with other people's lives, however, when they request my help, as I see from reading your editorials that you do. Even if they don't ask, when I see a need that I have the capacity to fill, I must offer my assistance, as do you. Similarly, when people ask me what motivates me, I tell them. That doesn't mean that I am proselytizing; I am only answering an inquiry. Does that condemn me in your view?
For example, most of my close friends are of the homosexual persuasion. I didn't choose them; if I had had a choice, I would have rather chosen Christian Fundamentalists for friends, but they all hate me. (I know you appreciate the irony of my attempt at gay humor.) However, that is, in fact, the case. I do really respect them; they are the most admirable people with whom I have ever had the privilege to associate. I love them. I believe that they, by virtue of their faith, can have greater standing than I, in God's view, despite their adherence to a lifestyle which is forbidden by the Bible.
When they ask me if I believe that God condones their sexual practices, I have to answer in the negative. That doesn't mean a thing concerning their position in God's estimation. God, if He exists, is perfect; human frailties are of no consequence to Him.
Do you see what I'm trying to say? Most of my lifestyle, as well, is forbidden by the Bible. It doesn't matter how hard I try, I still can't live up to a perfect standard. I have my own personal set of less than perfect attributes. To anyone who sees me walking down the street, they are usually obvious, given a normal capacity for observation on the part of the observer.
I don't even attempt to hide them; indeed, I've been known to shove them into people's faces, much like you do with your stand on separation of church and state. I insist on being myself, even if it engenders animosity in the people I encounter. I'm prepared for it. I usually expect it. Sometimes, it gives me motivation to get up in the morning; always, it gives me motivation to stand on my principles. Many times, I suffer because of it.
But -- that isn't what I aspire to! I hope for something better (I mean, in terms of correcting what I consider to be my faults).
My belief is: God has prepared that "something better for me"; it is available to me; all I have to do is: keep on thinking! That, in essence, is the same thing you believe -- at least that is my understanding of what you expressed in your editorials -- without the "God" factor.
So, my conclusion is: let's not be so antagonistic -- by that I mean vindictive, resentful, malicious -- all those Biblical admonitions -- but, hey!? What about civility? Our disagreements are a part of what defines us. They, as I said, inspire us to greater insights and personal achievements, but why can't we disagree, without deriding, condescending, or compromising our own sense of fair play? We have the same goal of making this country a better place to live for all people. Why turn a large portion of the population into "the enemy"?
It seems to me that that attitude only fosters more animosity. It probably has a lot to do with why religion is the greatest cause of human bloodshed in history. I welcome your thoughts on my ramblings.
With sincerity and admiration,
Brett Rice
From: Cliff Walker <editor@positiveatheism.org>
To:
Subject: Re: Critical Thinker writings
Date: Sunday, October 18, 1998 1:56 PM
No human is my enemy unless that person seeks to destroy me or put me at a disadvantage. Thus, one must be more than a Christian (or a Muslim or a Hindu) to be my enemy. It is this added "something" that I wish to discuss on this Forum, more than simply whether someone is religious.
Your approach to faith is commendable and is, fortunately for all of us, becomming increasingly popular. I have read works by Bishop John Spong (American, Episcopalian), Gerd Lüdemann (German, Lutheran, who recently renounced his faith), Ernie Bringas (American, Methodist) and others who express similar views.
As an atheist, I do not have a belief in any gods. In practicing the Positive Atheism of Gora, Joseph Lewis, and others, I teach that any alleged benefits from religion can better be achieved through our own efforts. This never precludes the dignity of personal, private religion among individuals and groups.
I would hope that anybody -- religious or otherwise -- would join in the effort to keep state and church separate. The move to "Christianize" America is probably the most frightening political movement since the McCarthy anti-Communist hysteria of the 1950s. (As it turns out, McCarthy himself was addicted to opiates, which could explain how his movement became so hysterical.)
Cliff Walker
"Positive Atheism" Magazine
http://www.PositiveAtheism.org/
editor@positiveatheism.org
"I am a perfect specimen
of the human species
in that I am perfectly human."
-- Cliff Walker
"A stupid man's report of what
a clever man says is never accurate
because he unconsciously translates
what he hears into something
that he can understand."
-- Bertrand Russell
-----Original Message-----
From:
To: editor@positiveatheism.org <editor@positiveatheism.org>
Date: Tuesday, October 27, 1998 9:13 PM
Subject: Critical Thinker writings
Cliff,
I thank you for your prompt response to my last e-mail. I apologize for my belated acknowledgment I certainly agree with your views on individual freedom, and I appreciate your candor. I am, however, somewhat ignorant as to your personal political views, and those of your organization. I have been able to develop a mental outline from your writings, but I have as yet, to read an overall political statement, elucidated in your words. I would really be interested in discussing the practical applications of your philosophy.
By the way, I want to tell you, that I know where you are coming from. I can tell from your writing, that we are of similar background and we have many experiences in common. Though we have come to different conclusions, we have a similar approach to solving the problems which life has forced us to confront; I can see that we are of a "kindred spirit", in many ways, so please, try not to regard me as an adversary.
Brett Rice
From: Cliff Walker <editor@positiveatheism.org>
To:
Subject: Re: Critical Thinker writings
Date: Wednesday, October 28, 1998 12:33 AM
I am now independent and am no longer involved with any organization. Right now, this is my magazine -- Positive Atheism -- and I do not know what became of the Critical Thinker because I do not own it and never did. I have always owned this WEB Space and did, for a long time, donate this space to the support of the Critical Thinker's parent organization.
Please note my new e-mail address, though this has nothing to do with the new name.
I don't have a comprehensive political viewpoint, but have opinions on many specific issues. One view that almost all organized atheist organizations and atheist spokespersons have is that separation of state from church is essential to the freedom of and from religion.
I was held in jail a little over ten years ago specifically for refusing a judge's orders to undergo religious instruction in the form of Alcoholics Anonymous meetings and AA-based "treatment." (It's in quotes because I still don't know what there is to treat, neither do I understand what the "treatment" consists of.) It looked as if the judge was giving me a choice and that I chose jail over religion -- but when I got out I still had to go and stand in a circle and recite the Lord's Prayer (Matthew 6:9-13), which is integral to all but the most progressive AA meetings.
This is the most important issue that relates to my involvement with this magazine: Jefferson's "Wall of Separation." Other than that, I am basically a mind-your-own-business small-"L" libertarian. (I'm not a member of the Libertarian Party and don't pretend to understand what they teach.)
I think Liberty is the most important word that was ever uttered by a human. I strongly caution people never to divorce the concept of liberty from the concept of personal accountability.
Cliff Walker, editor
"Positive Atheism" Magazine
http://www.PositiveAtheism.org/
editor@positiveatheism.org
Material by Cliff Walker (including unsigned editorial commentary) is copyright ©1995-2006 by Cliff Walker. Each submission is copyrighted by its writer, who retains control of the work except that by submitting it to Positive Atheism, permission has been granted to use the material or an edited version: (1) on the Positive Atheism web site; (2) in Positive Atheism Magazine; (3) in subsequent works controlled by Cliff Walker or Positive Atheism Magazine (including published or posted compilations). Excerpts not exceeding 500 words are allowed provided the proper copyright notice is affixed. Other use requires permission; Positive Atheism will work to protect the rights of all who submit their writings to us.