Positive Atheism:
Another Religion
Jim Cross
From: Jim Cross
To: Positive Atheism <editor@positiveatheism.org>
Subject: PA-via_Positive_Atheism_Index
Date: Sun, 14 Mar 1999 21:45:34 +0800
I think Positive Atheism sounds like another religion to me...only a religion with no "god".
I see religion as being a response to the question/s: Why are we here? How did the Universe come to be?
Also, religion is a means of social control: Whoever said that Population control is like a game of pool: the secret is ball control........hit the nail on the head. All religions primarily aim to restrict sexual and intellectual freedom in that order.
I think all people can be virtuous and that the Ten Comandments or Christ's parables and paraphrasing of the Commandments are a good guide for humans to live by...........the religion bit obscures the message they are trying to convey.
I am only interested in seeking the answers to the questions I asked earlier. Whether we use the term God or not doesn't bother me and certainly its use/non-use will not prevent me from engaging indiscussions with people seeking the answers to the the Meaning of Life, the Universe and everything.
Yours truly,
42
From: "Cliff Walker" <editor@positiveatheism.org>
To: "Jim Cross"
Subject: Re: PA-via_Positive_Atheism_Index
Date: Sun, 14 Mar 1999 16:26:31 -0800
How can a philioshphy that excludes the notion of "gods" be called a religion? Is that not a patent abuse of the word "religion"?
Cliff Walker
"Positive Atheism" Magazine
From: Jim Cross
To: Positive Atheism <editor@positiveatheism.org>
Subject: Re: PA-via_Positive_Atheism_Index
Date: Tue, 16 Mar 1999 00:06:09 +0800
Dear Cliff,
Thank you for replying to my e-mail - you have started me thinking again - and thanks for that, too!
RELIGION:
noun belief in, recognition of or an awakened sense of a higher unseen
controlling power or powers, with the emotion and morality connected with
such; rites or worship; any system of such belief or worship; devoted fidelity;
monastic life; a monastic order; Protestantism (obsolete).
I took the above definition of religion from my copy of Microsoft Bookshelf. There are many other definitions, no doubt, however this one will suffice for my comments.
The definition includes "rites or worship" and "any system of such belief or worship". I contend that much atheist literature is "obsessed" not just with "a-theos" but with "anti-theos". It seems to be ritualistic and there is a definite "system". There seems to be a continual harping on the notion of god/gods. Why not just forget them and move on?
I think atheism sometimes has all the hallmarks of a fundamentalist christian sect - the arguments propounded are as shrill as those of any christian fundamentalist.
So I am disappointed when I perceive the same intellectual faultlines in the atheist literature of the 1990's that I read and heard when I first went to university in 1963!
Maybe my personal atheism is really agnosticism - certainly if there were to be a god, it would be some form of enabling device, possibly even an object of wonder - a marvel, yes but a thing of adoration NO!
Now I might be grasping at hairs here, but no more so than the two learned gentlemen you quoted in your reply.
I remember reading Arthur C Clarke's sci-fi books as an impressionable Catholic teenager. I was excited by his stories but shocked at his "anti-religious" sentiment. Then surprise, surprise, I came to see the folly of religion and the more I studied the life of Christ the more I came to realise that he was about living life fitfully with human dignity and decency and not religion!
I still have a hunger to know why the universe is, how it operates and so on.....as I am sure most thinking people do.
Of course, if I were to subscribe to "Positive Atheism" magazine for a year maybe my eyes would be opened wider and my befuddled mind refreshed.
Thanks for your time.
Jim Cross
From: "Cliff Walker" <editor@positiveatheism.org>
To: "Jim Cross"
Subject: Re: PA-via_Positive_Atheism_Index
Date: Monday, March 15, 1999 4:16 PM
I think atheism sometimes has all the hallmarks of a fundamentalist christian sect - the arguments propounded are as shrill as those of any christian fundamentalist.
I agree that this is true for many elements among atheistic activism.
This is why I left United States Atheists, why I am very skeptical of invitations
to join up with American Atheists and Internet Infidels, and why I have
branched out on my own to begin formulating a Western version of Gora's
Positive Atheism philosophy. Gora's book is at:
http://www.PositiveAtheism.org/india/gora21.htm
http://www.PositiveAtheism.org/india/gora22.htm
My goal is to distill the essence of Gora's philosophy and, perhaps,
apply it to today's situation in the west. This is no easy deal, and I
have limited personal resources due to health problems.
I would like to send you the March, 1999 edition of "Positive Atheism" magazine which is focused along the lines of what you are saying. I haven't had time (or don't have the rights) to post some of the material in the magazine. Other material is excerpted from larger pieces already on the Web. This is why it would be simpler to just send you the magazine itself.
Yes, I am "anti" certain forms of theism, but then I do (and must) count many theists among my most trusted allies.
Meanwhile, the definition I use for "atheism" is a long one
(this is no easy deal), and lives at:
http://www.PositiveAtheism.org/writ/smith.htm
Cliff Walker
"Positive Atheism" Magazine
Material by Cliff Walker (including unsigned editorial commentary) is copyright ©1995-2006 by Cliff Walker. Each submission is copyrighted by its writer, who retains control of the work except that by submitting it to Positive Atheism, permission has been granted to use the material or an edited version: (1) on the Positive Atheism web site; (2) in Positive Atheism Magazine; (3) in subsequent works controlled by Cliff Walker or Positive Atheism Magazine (including published or posted compilations). Excerpts not exceeding 500 words are allowed provided the proper copyright notice is affixed. Other use requires permission; Positive Atheism will work to protect the rights of all who submit their writings to us.