Another 'Christian In Exile'
Chaplain Al Holm
- Perspective: In Search of God: Is Atheism
the Only Alternative?
by Bishop John Shelby Spong - Visit: The Right
Reverend John Shelby Spong Bishop of Newark
- Visit The Dr. Gerald
Mann Television Program
From:(Chaplain Al Holm)
To: Positive Atheism <editor@positiveatheism.org>
Subject: via What is Positive Atheism
Date: Mon, 5 Jun 2000 20:00:28 -0700 (PDT)
WHAT A DELIGHTFUL SUBJECT. I have asking myself that and other
related questions for more than half a century.
One of the first things that I must confess is that I am an ordained
minister in the Christian faith. At least I was for many years. Now, I
think that I am an atheist when it comes to the god of many churches. I
have to agree with Dr. Gerald Mann when he said that if you belong to a
church that worships a ve9ngeful and angry god, you are in a sick church.
And, I agree with Spong when he suggests
that we must ask the question of not who is God but What is God.
I also had the pleasure of meeting and learning many new ideas
from a man named Rocco Erico. His teaching along with Spong's concept of
the Hebrew Lord have certainly secured many new ideas about the whole situation.
Yes, I am theist, but not a theist of the first century religion. I am
also an atheist to the religions of the 20th or 21st century in most churches.0000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000
I think I have to join Bishop
Spong in declaring myself to be a christian in exile.
http://community.webtv.net/livingministry/AnInterfaithChapel
From: "Positive Atheism" <editor@positiveatheism.org>
To: "Chaplain Al Holm"
Subject: Thanks From Poaitive Atheism
Date: Thursday, July 27, 2000 9:26 PM
You wrote to us two months ago.
I was so glad to get your first letter that I stopped everything (and
was even running late that night) so I could post it.
Since then, we have been engaged in some lively discussions that I would
like to point out to you.
Probably the two most important (based upon what you said in your letter),
and also the most concise, are the ongoing dialogues: "Your
Style Of Atheism Could Remove Atheists' Stigma" with James Darpinian
and "Atheists Of The Deep South: Stay In Your
Closets!" with Bill Garrett.
Both the above dialogues summarize thoughts that I developed while engaged
with two pantheists: "The Semantic Dance Of
Pantheism" with John Love-Jensen; and, to a lesser extent (but
easier to follow), "Pantheism Section Of FAQ
Misrepresents Pantheism" with Trene Valdrek. We even discuss Bishop
Spong in some of these letters -- both glowingly and critically.
The Darpinian letter voices the real nature of the question that is
of the utmost concern for me in my work as an atheistic activist: How can
we shake the stigma that goes along with atheism? The Garrett letter approaches
basically the same subject, but starts out from a different direction.
Both show clearly my reasons for using the "weak" definition
for the word atheism ("I simply lack a god belief" --
for whatever reason) as opposed to the "strong" definition for
atheism ("There are no gods"). It is very fortunate that these
two conversations were going on simultaneously with the two main dialogues
described below, because this gave me the opportunities to digest what
I had been realizing and to express them in concise terms and in a more
useful context.
It is the Love-Jensen letter where I spent much time racking my brains
trying to figure out how to voice my objections to his views (and in many
respects, trying even to understand what he was saying). As you
follow, you will see me going over the same points again and again until
he finally understands the nature of my objection. When we finally come
to an agreement as to what each of us are saying (and during the very last
portion of this grueling and extended dialogue), I come to a very surprising
conclusion. Some of the afterthoughts to this conclusion are related in
the Garrett and Valdrek letters.
But, what is exciting to me is that I now see four elements in the philosophy
of Positive Atheism as I advocate it here: (1) a proactive ethic that gives
primacy to truth and truthfulness; (2) an outlook that tends toward being
constructive and getting along rather than "bashing" (though
"bashing" is not ruled out, here); (3) the "weak" definition
for the word atheism which means "a-theism" -- "without
theism" rather than "no-god-ism"; (4) the sense of awe toward
nature, life, the earth, and the universe which drives many to become,
among other things, Scientific Pantheists -- or, in many cases throughout
history, outright creationists.
I hope you enjoy.
[I might tack this onto your post as a belated response. I had initially
intended just to leave your letter as it is with no response. So, if you
have any comments on this new twist in the development of the philsophy
of Positive Atheism, perhaps this would be best as a new thread of discussion.]
I also might even publish yoru first letter it in the print edition, and
will let you know if this is what I do, becaue it would net you some free
issues of the magazine.]
Cliff Walker
"Positive Atheism" Magazine
From: "Chaplain Al Holm"
To: "Positive Atheism" <editor@positiveatheism.org>
Subject: Re: Thanks From Positive Atheism
Date: Friday, July 28, 2000 10:27 AM
Again, I find it very enlightening and enjoyable to hear from
you. I am having a difficult time getting started here because there are
so many issues to address. Perhaps I will begin with the idea of all the
names that are given to different ideas about gods, God, higher power,
systems of belief and non belief etc., etc., etc.
I think that everyone realizes that ALL religions are man created.
My name is Ellsworth so the religion that I participate in is now called
Ellsworthism, It is the relationship that I have with whatever God, god,
diety, or whatever that I choose to believe in. I don't need a go between
with my choice of the object of my devotion or belief. I don't really need
a minister, pastor, rabbi, saint, priest or anyone else to practice my
belief.
I guess that one could say that I an indeed an agnostic because
I don't know what God or god is. I do know, and I can prove, there is a
creation. I don't know who, what , when , how or why this creation that
I enjoy came into being. I do know that creation exist and my religion
and my way of worship is to honor the Creator, whatever that may be, by
honoring the creation of the Creator.
I am also what you mentioned, an a-theist. I do not accept the
concept of the creator that theism has created.
I personally encourage all people to consider the concepts of
theism and perhaps realize that theism is man made and not Creator created.
Then again, maybe I have my head inserted somewhere that the
sun doesn't shine.
Thanks for remembering me.
Al, a recovering Christian minister.
Material by Cliff Walker (including unsigned editorial commentary) is copyright ©1995-2006 by Cliff Walker. Each submission is copyrighted by its writer, who retains control of the work except that by submitting it to Positive Atheism, permission has been granted to use the material or an edited version: (1) on the Positive Atheism web site; (2) in Positive Atheism Magazine; (3) in subsequent works controlled by Cliff Walker or Positive Atheism Magazine (including published or posted compilations). Excerpts not exceeding 500 words are allowed provided the proper copyright notice is affixed. Other use requires permission; Positive Atheism will work to protect the rights of all who submit their writings to us.