I Can Prove God Is Real
Freddy And Lou
From: "freddy and lou"
To: "Positive Atheism" <editor@positiveatheism.org>
Subject: defindig god
Date: Wednesday, July 19, 2000 6:15 PM
I don,t know way you dont belive god exist. I would like to point out that even einstein belived in god. And there is real evindece that jesus really did walk the earth ..Im not going to bash you .but i can prove god is real. Can you prove enything?
From: "Positive Atheism" <editor@positiveatheism.org>
To: "freddy and lou"
Subject: Re: defindig god
Date: Wednesday, July 19, 2000 7:06 PM
I don,t know way you dont belive god exist. I would like to point out that even einstein belived in god.
Einstein did not believe in "God" but used the word god as a metaphor for the universe and the orderliness he saw therein.
"It was, of course, a lie what you read about
my religious convictions, a lie which is being
systematically repeated. I do not believe in a
personal God and I have never denied this but
have expressed it clearly. If something is in me
which can be called religious then it is the
unbounded admiration for the structure of the
world so far as our science can reveal it."
-- 1954, from Albert Einstein: The
Human Side, edited by Helen
Dukas and Banesh Hoffman,
Princeton University Press
"I cannot imagine a God who rewards and punishes
the objects of his creation, whose purposes are
modeled after our own -- a God, in short, who is but
a reflection of human frailty. Neither can I believe
that the individual survives the death of his body,
although feeble souls harbor such thoughts through
fear or ridiculous egotisms."
-- obituary in New York Times, 19 April 1955
Besides, if Einstein were (for example) a racist, would that make racism right? Henry Ford was a racist and Thomas Jefferson owned slaves, but that does not mean that I should faithfully adhere to those elements of their philosophies that I find abhorrent.
The whole point of Freethought is to come up with my own ethic and philosophy and to avoid believing a proposition simply because someone like Einstein (or the Jesus character in the Gospel stories) allegedly said it.
And there is real evindece that jesus really did walk the earth
I'm waiting. Nobody has given me any evidence other then the New Testament, and this "evidence" is very biased. Also, the Gospel stories did not attain circulation until at least C.E. 70 at the earliest, after Judaea had been flattened by Rome. Any original followers of a historical Jesus would have been killed off by then.
The Gospels display a fierce pro-Roman bias, suggesting to me that they were never circulated among the Judaeans, but only among the pagan Romans. Because of the time they were circulated (and because of where they were circulated), it is impossible to imagine any Judaeans remaining to dispute the Gospel claims.
Nevertheless, if you are ready to prove that the Jesus described in the Gospels really did exist as described, I am ready to listen to your argument. I've seen a lot of Jesus material, but am always fascinated to learn more and to exercise my skills at assessing historical claims.
Im not going to bash you .but i can prove god is real.
I'm ready. First, you must explain to me what you mean when you use the word god. This is necessary so that I know what you are talking about, because that word has no meaning to me right now -- as far as this conversation is concerned. So, describe to me what you mean when you say "god."
If you can show me that a god exists, I will gladly convert to theism for the sake of truthfulness. However, it's only fair that you agree to renounce your faith should you fail to produce a convincing argument for the existence of your god.
Can you prove enything?
What have I claimed that you want me to support? Proof is a tall concept, even in science. I will support any claims I have made on this forum or in my writings or in our FAQ (which is my work). If I cannot support a specific claim, I will retract it and will link from the claim to the retraction.
As for the question, can I prove that Jesus did not exist? No. I never said that he did not exist (nobody can prove a negative existential claim; that is, a claim for the nonexistence of something). I simply don't have any proof that he did. Those claiming that he did exist have some serious work to do, because the argument that he did exist has very little support.
Neither can I prove that no gods exist (as nobody can prove a negative existential claim), and I have never declared that no gods exist. All I am saying, here, is that nobody has ever given me even a weak argument to support their claim that gods exist. If presented with strong arguments that gods exist (arguments that eliminate all counter-arguments), then I will gladly and publicly convert to theism.
Any theist who wishes to be as honest as I am being here ought to agree to renounce theism should he or she fail to bring forth convincing arguments in favor of their claims. Remember, the one making an existential claim must prove the claim's truthfulness. The one listening need simply listen and ask questions; the listener is under no obligation to disprove the existential claim (as this cannot be done for any existential claim).
Cliff Walker
"Positive Atheism" Magazine
Material by Cliff Walker (including unsigned editorial commentary) is copyright ©1995-2006 by Cliff Walker. Each submission is copyrighted by its writer, who retains control of the work except that by submitting it to Positive Atheism, permission has been granted to use the material or an edited version: (1) on the Positive Atheism web site; (2) in Positive Atheism Magazine; (3) in subsequent works controlled by Cliff Walker or Positive Atheism Magazine (including published or posted compilations). Excerpts not exceeding 500 words are allowed provided the proper copyright notice is affixed. Other use requires permission; Positive Atheism will work to protect the rights of all who submit their writings to us.