Never Mind The
Terrorists: Your Atheism
Will Put You In Hell
Dan Plovanich

 

Amidst almost universal grief and shock over the terrorist attacks of September 11, 2001 -- and while clergymen of various sects struggle with trying to explain to a skeptical public why a good God would allow such horrendous evil to occur -- and along with almost universal approval of the prospect of that God sending the culprits directly to Hell without so much as a fair trial -- and while friends and opponents alike condemn PAM for criticizing President Bush because he used this tragedy as an excuse to direct the nation through various religious rituals specific to his (Bush's) religous belief's -- after enduring all this in a single week, now a Christian named Dan Plovanich writes to inform us that we're going to spend eternity writhing in the unquenchable flames of the Christian Hell simply for not believing in the correct religion!

Let's use this exchange to keep a little perspective before we launch our salvoes against those of us who still fear for our future even beyond the immediate danger of a bloody and potentially devastating war.

 

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From: "Positive Atheism Magazine" <editor@positiveatheism.org>
To: "Dan Plovanich"
Subject: Re: Positive_Atheism_Letters_Section
Date: September 15, 2001 10:42 PM

I don't believe anything. It is you who said that I hold beliefs. Atheism is the absence of beliefs.

You are lashing out against somebody who has done you no harm, and I do not understand why anybody would do this to their fellow humans.

Why did you write to me and misrepresent my views only to denounce your own misrepresentations of my views? Why did you not first find out what my views are and then comment on those?

Is this that thing called "hatred" that I keep hearing about?

And why is it that the only people who treat me this way are those who appear to be hung up on the judgement of Christ or the judgement of Allah? Why are these the only two groups who lie about me for the purpose of denouncing me (rather, denouncing their own fantasy about me)?

Why do regular Christians and Muslims and Jews (who don't believe in an afterlife judgement at all) and other religionists refrain from behaving this way?

It's always and exclusively these two groups: Christians who believe in an aflterlife judgement and Muslims who believe in an afterlife judgement. (Well, Twelve Steppers, too, but their "Hell" is the gutter, meted out by their "loving God" for committing the sin of drinking alcohol -- and only that small percentage Steppers who believe this way have treated me thus!)

Cliff Walker
Positive Atheism Magazine
Six years of service to
     people with no reason to believe

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From: "Positive Atheism" <editor@positiveatheism.org>
To: "Dan Plovanich"
Subject: Re: Positive_Atheism_Letters_Section
Date: September 16, 2001 1:52 AM

Again you lie about my position, calling it a belief in nothingness.

You also lie about it being a form response. I don't have any form responses. Just check our Letters section and you will see no paragraphs repeated in the entire thing -- all 1,200 or so files of it. I hand-type each response to each letter because I love my fellow humans and thus give each of them the dignity I think she or he deserves by preparing a unique response for each person as his or her letter came in.

You are a liar -- twice removed!

Not only that, you lie for the purpose of trying to convince my readers and myself that the Christian religion is a position of truthfulness.

For shame!

Why do so many Christians lie about my position and then attack their false representation of my position rather than finding out what my position actually is (even after I have told them)?

Are you perhaps afraid to examine your own position, fearful that you may find out that you've been chasing shadows? -- fearful that you may discover that you've spent your life telling people that things you cannot demonstrate to be true are, nevertheless, true? -- fearful that you may some day wake up and realize that you've been needlessly frightening the living daylights out of small children and weak-minded adults with your horrible tales of the Christian Hell -- fearful -- when you cannot demonstrate that there even existed a man named Jesus who was crucified under Pontius Pilate for thinking he was Messiah?

Are you afraid that the Christian religion may just be based upon a fairy tale -- a cruel hoax?

Is that why you lie about my position and then refute your own lies rather than to face the truth of what I have to say?

Cliff Walker
Positive Atheism Magazine
Six years of service to
     people with no reason to believe

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From: "Positive Atheism" <editor@positiveatheism.org>
To: "Dan Plovanich"
Subject: Re: Positive_Atheism_Letters_Section
Date: September 16, 2001 4:18 AM

You lie again. I don't enjoy being lied to, but I am morally obligated to point out when somebody logs on to our Forum and lies to our readers. This is not fun. I'd much rather hold dialogues with people who speak truthfulness, as I am interested in learning and finding truth. I have no use for lies, and that is the main reason why I shun the Christian religion: it can only be defended through falsehood. I could never defend the Christian religion because I am by nature a man of truthfulness.
 

Can you demonstrate this as fact?

No, you cannot demonstrate this claim at all.

Thus, you lie again because you make a statement that you cannot prove.

Not only that, you slander because you call me a liar and cannot prove that I lied. I called you a liar only after having demonstrated that you lied. You make claims about me and cannot prove your claim. Since your claim is that I lie "everytime [I] open [my] mouth," and since you cannot prove this, you are a slanderer.

A slanderer is the worst kind of liar that there is, because the liar lies at the expense of somebody else's good reputation.
 

Interesting that you stack lie upon lie by telling this lie, because I just demonstrated that you lied about me! And I demonstrated earlier that you lied about me before.

And you do this just to try to show that the Christian religion is a position of truthfulness!

If Jesus existed, I wonder what he would think of you, lying in his name?
 

So, am I to be likened unto Hitler, or am I your friend? Which is it?

Or are you a friend of Hitler as well?
 

Another lie. Three lies, in fact.

1. I do not hate God. I cannot hate something that I cannot show exists.

2. I do not hate Jesus Christ. I cannot hate something that nobody can prove existed, and even if he did exist (unlikely), I cannot hate somebody who is dead.

3. Hitler was a very devout Christian throughout his life. His attitude toward the Jews came directly from Martin Luther, which came directly from Saint Paul, as well as passages of the alleged words of Christ, such as John 8 and 10, and Matthew 10 and 23.

Therefore, I am convinced that I am acting as the agent of our Creator. By fighting off the Jews, I am doing the Lord's work.
     -- Adolf Hitler, Mein Kampf

Anyone who dares to lay hands on the highest image of the Lord commits sacrilege against the benevolent creator of this miracle and contributes to the expulsion from paradise.
     -- Adolf Hitler, Mein Kampf

The folkish-minded man, in particular, has the sacred duty, each in his own denomination, of making people stop just talking superficially of God's will, and actually fulfill God's will, and not let God's word be desecrated. For God's will gave men their form, their essence and their abilities. Anyone who destroys His work is declaring war on the Lord's creation, the divine will.
     -- Adolf Hitler, Mein Kampf
 

There you go again, speaking falsehood about what I do and do not believe -- even after I told you what the case is. Is not mine the final word on what I believe?

I'll tell you what: Please stop writing to our domains. I will send you an official request to that effect, with a copy sent to the abuse team of Prodigy, which now owns flash.net.

Have a nice life. As far as we can tell, it's the only one we get. I choose to spend mine speaking the truth to the best of my ability, because I do not want to go on record as having lied to anybody. I certainly don't think any ideology is worth lying for: if I cannot defend an ideology by being entirely truthful, I will not defend it -- I will not even adhere to it.

Cliff Walker
Positive Atheism Magazine
Six years of service to
     people with no reason to believe

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